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11 Ways To Get The Spidey Reboot Right
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 17:16 by Stephen Carty in Empire States
 A few nights ago, some friends and I were discussing where the much-maligned, series-killing Spider-Man 3 went wrong (which is a subject for a whole other blog) and it got me thinking about the upcoming reboot.
At first, I was pretty sceptical about starting all over again so soon. My spider-senses are also still tingling over a few of the casting decisions (Rhys Ifans, I hope you prove me wrong). But ever since Sony released the perfectly-moody shot of Andrew Garfield in the new suit, I'm suddenly excited at the prospect, and definitely more so than I was for the story to carry on with a fourth.
But still, Sam Raimi's appropriately-named replacement Marc Webb still has a lot to do if he wants to make the wallcrawler his own. Like what exactly you ask? Well, I happen to have a handy list right here...
1) Have Spidey Screw Up
If we're going back to the start (which we are), then it's time for our friendly neighbourhood you-know-who to make some mistakes. Take reboot-extraordinaire Casino Royale for example; Bond takes a few beatings, occasionally makes the wrong call... and we love him for it. Also, just because our boy gets bitten by a radioactive spider doesn’t instantly mean he suddenly knows how to take on multiple goons or engage in mid-air battle.
2) Go All 'Nolan'
Just as Raimi based his take on Dick Donner's original Superman, Webb could do worse than using Chris Nolan's masterful bat-flicks for inspiration. Dark (obviously), based in the real world, built around ideas and not afraid to kill off a heroine (cough, Gwen Stacey, cough), they're just too good not to be influential. In a similar vein, The Fantastic Four 2 should be used in a 'what not to do' capacity.
3) Use Ultimate Spider-Man As A Guide
Since we're going 'back to school', there's no better source material than Brian Michael Bendis' celebrated comic reboot. Constantly witty yet playing seriously with modern twists that actually work (Peter is a web designer, not a photographer) the series is the ideal blueprint to nab from. Since Bendis tweeted a while back that he'd spent time with the creative team, we can assume this may well be the case...
4) Know What To Take From The Comics And What Not
At the risk of contradicting my last point, not everything from the page works on screen. Not to go on about Chris Nolan, but Batman Begins and The Dark Knight tower above the rest of the genre as they realise that the likes of Killer Croc, Mr Freeze and Poison Ivy would just look silly on the big screen. However, seeing as we know The Lizard is our villain, this one could be too late...
5) Have Some Eeeeevil
Speaking of, it's about time our arachnid hero faced true villainy. Nothing against Willem Dafoe's cackling Norman Osborn or Alfred Molina's great Dr Octavius, but Spidey's seen enough conflicted, I-had-good-intentions badguys. Okay, so it looks like we've got another one of these (The Lizard is a noble professor who mutates into a vile lizard-man after a botched experiment), but Irrfan Kahn's proto-Goblin could be an insane murderer going crazy thanks to the formula...
6) Use the '60s Cartoon 'Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Does Whatever A Spider Can' Theme Tune
How cool would this be? No, seriously though, if you’re reading Marc Webb, I’m kidding. Just hire Hans Zimmer. His scores always rock.
7) Keep Peter Parker before Spider-Man
No matter what your take on Raimi's trilogy, his decision to always keep Peter as the focus was spot-on from day one. Unlike almost-invulnerable alien Superman or super-rich, incredibly-trained billionaire Bruce Wayne, Pete's a normal guy with everyday problems, which is why he's so relatable. Remember how being a hero constantly affected his everyday life in Spider-Man 2? More of that please.
8. Use CGI Only Where You Have To
Compare and contrast: in the first movie, a stuntman flips in through the window before the camera cuts away, then comes back to give us Tobey sans mask. In the third, Maguire is standing there, then an obviously-CGI figure jumps out the window. The difference? The former looked awesome, the latter stood out like the Rhino at one of Aunt May's tea parties. Sure, with what is required you often have to go digital (after all, real web slinging is a recipe for certain death), but for flipping and jumping, what's wrong with a super-skilled gymnast in tights?
9. Have More Actual Wall Crawling
While Raimi got so much about Spider-man right, it was always a bit odd how his wall-crawler didn't actually do that much, well, wall-crawling. Jumping? Yes. Swinging? Loads. Jumping and swinging? You try and stop him. Still, it would've been nice to have seen more of the adhesive quality that actually gives him his namesake. Having Tobey's mask continually ripped, torn or removed was a good way to help us connect Peter with his alter-ego, but seeing him read the Bugle on his ceiling would be cool too.
10. Make Us Like the Heroine Again
As Tobey's voiceover advises us at the start of the franchise, any story worth telling should be about a girl. Okay, so not necessarily true, but in order for the romance to work, we've got to like said girl. Kirsten Dunst arguably wasn't to blame, but as the movies went by she got more whiny, increasingly passive-aggressive and snogged Peter's best mate… after twisting to Chubby Checker. However, since this time the focus is on Parker's first-love Gwen Stacey and the awesome Emma Stone is playing her, it's looking like tiger just hit the jackpot. Stay away from that bridge though.
11. Don’t Be Bullied By The Studio
You never know what goes on behind closed doors, but it’s pretty obvious by now that Sam left due to studio interference. Let’s hope that this time, the movie is Webb’s vision – and his alone. Story and characters first, fan-pleasing baddies chucked in a very distant second.
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Comments
| 1 |
FantonEsquire
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 17:52
Lawks, does EVERYTHING have to be 'dark' now? What's worng with a bit of free-wheeling fun? Batman's the place for darkness, I always feel Spidey should be lighter in tone. It's what drew me to the comics in the first place. |
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| 2 |
FantonEsquire
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 17:52
wrong, even. Tsk. |
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umer_ejaz
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 18:12
I do agree with that Spidey should be dark and be able to get his ass whooped. But overall, I'm not 100% on the idea that Mr.Garfield should even have ever been considered to be Spiderman. After seeing images off him on www.comingsoon.net, you have to wonder whether another actor (cough Tobey Maguire cough) could have been Spidey.
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oddzag
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 18:36
@umer_ejaz Why couldn't Tobey Maguire do it? For the simple reason this is a reboot taking us back to the beginning of the series so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to re-tread old ground, furthermore he's too old now to play a teenage Spidey.
The tone of the film is going to be important: if it goes too light you end up with FF and if it goes too dark you end up with The Dark Knight - which isn't the right tone for Spider-Man (great for Batman though). Personally I think they should aim for a slightly darker Iron Man if that makes any sense.
CGI should also be limited to webslinging and The Lizard (which let's face it would look stooopid as a costume). |
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The Todge
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 19:27
Ooookay. A few points here.
Firstly, dark? No WAY! Not everything has to be dark for chrissakes. Fantastic Four 2 may not be a great film in ANY respect, but even with the plot of apocolypse it remembered it was supposed to be fun. You can have drama without going broody. Jesus Christ, it's like Black Cat keeps sayin to him "You're Spider-Man for fuck sakes!". Ok not in those words, but you know what I mean. This needs to be FUN. Batman is not the template for Spider-Man!
Secondly, the point about things not working on screen. They only don't work if you screw them up. Like Schumacher did with Freeze and Bane. It's great Bane is getting another chance, but Freeze has tons of potential. Look at the BTAS episode Heart of Ice, for how to do Freeze properly. The realistic aesthetic works in part for Batman, because he is just a guy in a suit. Spider-Man has super powers and the material should be treated accordingly. You don't need a real world based Spider-Man. How hidiously dull. It's a COMIC BOOK, cut loose, but RESPECT the material, dont think you're above it, which is what Schumacher did.
Thirdly, the mask continually coming off/ripping was BULLSHIT. Rami didn't trust his vision or the audience to believe that it was Maguire in the suit and not a CGI effect, The mask is there for a reason, keep the damn thing on! Tell the story right, and we will buy it. We believed a man could fly after all.
Lastly, again, just to make this point clear. The fan pleasing inclusion of Venom, sure bad diea when Rami didn't like the character. But the ultra convenient third act butler was all Rami. He screwed up, plain and simple.
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BatSpider
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 20:01
12. what a prick. |
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Radical_Duck
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 21:41
I completely agree with The Todge on this one. I disagree with 2, 4 and 7. Spider-Man has his dark moments but for the most part he is a quirky and bright hero who has FUN! Yes Raimi FUN! I didn't see much of that in your mopey Spidey. And yes Nolan did good, but his films can't be used as a template for all superhero films because of the huge contrast in subject matter. And number 7 is not neccessarily the case- Raimi went overboard with his soap opera- with Spidey its a fine balance, because you need the excitement of the fights to even out the goings on of Peter's life (I'm a massive fan of Spidey comics, films and tv if you didnt already guess)
I propose a number 12 though: BRING SPIDEY'S ONE LINERS AND HUMOUR!! The mask represents that Peter can be someone else, and is free from all his awkwardness and just tries to have fun!! I've spoken to so many other die-hard fans who think the same. Make Spidey funny! |
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WULLIE
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 21:52
What Stephen Carty failed to mention is we need more humour.Spidey was always a wise ass.Something that raimi left out in his versions, ok he tried but,nice costume did your mother make it for you isnt the wittiest of put downs.Ive seen a lot of comments on this website and others saying that the movie will suck but ill make my own mind up when I see it.I hope its good.I liked 500 Days of Summer and Marc Webb is obviously talented.Just hope he does the souce material justice.Gotta say though im not digging the costume so far. |
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umer_ejaz
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 22:04
@oddzag
sorry, I meant to say they should have kept him |
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Cyberleader
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 22:26
Silly boy- Batman in the comics IS dark, spidey isn't so...Ok, so Bats went through a silly 60s phase but be honest...Bataman is a vigilante avenging his parents death, scaring the **** out of criminals. His foes include a phycotic clown who would kill or do ANYTHING to anybody, just because. Spidey is yer friendly neighbourhood super (with supernatural powers (realism my a**)) whos top villians are a guy who dresses as a goblin, Dr Oct (Oooh, scart tentacle things!) and, at its most dark, an alien symbolite named Venom. Dark Knight it aint. Nolan high art, nuh-huh. But it's still as fun as any bat flick so just run with it for what it is. Anyone compare Batman and Spiderman again and I'll beat them to death with a sturdy Comics Exyclopedia!!! Thanks for reading. |
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LeChuck
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 22:40
Radical_Duck and WULLIE are quite correct; one of the key elements they need to nail here is actually establishing Spider-Man, the superhero persona, as a screen presence. It's funny that this blog cites the constant mask ripping/removal as a positive, whereas I felt it was a constant irritation that robbed the series' title character of a key part of his identity. Spider-Man isn't just Peter Parker wearing a suit; he's the embodiment of Peter's confident inner hero, the wisecracking, freewheeling adventurer that's waiting to escape from the socially hemmed-in everykid.
Frankly, it's not a character element that I ever saw a hint of in Maguire and Raimi's morose portrayal, so I'd be really keen to see this one get that part right. The Spider-Man story can certainly have high stakes, drama, life-or-death dilemmas and deep moral conundrums, but done right, it should also be the liveliest and most humour-filled of the superhero sagas... |
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Radical_Duck
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 22:44
LeChuck you've said it so much better than I could- I take my hat off to you :-) |
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The Todge
Posted on Thursday February 10, 2011, 23:16
Well said chaps! |
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Loosecrew
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 00:00
The last thing cinema wants is a 'dark' Spider-Man. Batman is dark. Spider-Man is light, fluffy and comic booky as anything. Bring on the laughs and thrills! :D |
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PaulParker77
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 00:56
Hmmm. I think everyone is getting a bit carried away here!
The guy said “Webb could do worse than using Chris Nolan’s bat flicks for inspiration.” Inspiration. He then says the Nolan movies are too good not to be influential. I agree. Can anyone else think of 2 better back-to-back comic flicks?
Then there’s the word “dark” which has amusingly gotten everyone’s pants in a twist. It’s one word in an article and it’s referring to other movies. I get that Spidey doesn’t have to be as dark as Batman (someone made a good suggestion “slightly darker than Iron Man”) – but I don’t think he meant it that way. Nowhere did he say “it should be as dark as The Dark Knight”. Seems like folk have latched onto this and got all know-it-all.
Some things do work on screen, some don’t. I think he’s absolutely right here. “how hideously dull”………….. I’d rather Spidey take on someone like The Kingpin (a mafia boss) or Deadshot (an assassin) than someone like The Silver Surfer.
“It’s a COMIC BOOK”. No – it’s a MOVIE BASED ON A COMIC BOOK. Different thing. They don’t have to be the same. That argument is as valid as those who complain “the book was better!”
I wouldn’t say Schumacher thought he was above it at all. He just got the tone totally wrong. He went for fun and quirky, and look how that turned out.
Many people here are claiming comic knowledge, but if they really knew their stuff then surely they’d realise that characters aren’t necessarily 100% dark or light. Yes, in general Spidey is lighter than Batman, no argument, but the tone depends on what writer and run you read.
By all means, let’s have Peter showing a little humour, but him jumping about quipping one-liners whilst in suit is silly.
As for Batspider’s “what a prick” comment……….. ridiculous.
I don’t agree with everything the guy’s said, but he’s also made some good suggestions. But then, nobody’s going to mention that! Guess that’s the culture we live in sadly.
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Halo14
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 10:27
Why the hell reboot Spiderman in the first place. We have had 3 Spiderman movies already. Now a reboot? NOT NEEDED!!!! |
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Y2Neildotcom
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 11:32
First things first, Spider-Man 3 was a great film! It had its ups and downs agreed but I loved it. The bell-tower scene where Eddie turns into Venom...delicious!
Anyway, I was thinking...could they have the Lizard, instead of a giant CGI lizard, be a bit like Reptile in that Mortal Kombat reboot trailer thing that hit the net last year and is now being turned into a 10 part mini series? That'd be cool. |
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SenorGrande
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 11:32
"Kirsten Dunst arguably wasn't to blame"
Yes she was. |
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jorarl
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 11:54
Forget Spider-Man, I want a proper Silver Surfer movie! |
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plum bob
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 12:31
Hang on I've got a 12th.... don't make the bloody film and give it a decade or two. |
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BrooksyTHX1138
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 13:01
Dark Moments are all good, but Spiderman has always been much more vibrant. I agree with oddzag, it should be just a bit darker than Iron Man. And the mask being ripped off all the time was awful, he should keep his mask on at all times, when his mask came off publicly in the comics/cartoon it was a BIG DEAL, in the films it happened so often it got boring. Apart from that though, its all good. |
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| 22 |
dgribble
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 13:23
I've got one way; Get Rami, Maguire and Dunst back, and fire this lot of arseholes. |
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bobthegrinch
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 13:33
@Paul Parker 77 the writer says he could do worse than use Nolan for inspiration and the following sentence is clearly his check list of what he thinks should be taken from it. 'Dark (obviously)' it's clear that is what he's getting at. Yeah he should get his arse kicked a bit but only so that when he does come out on top it's that bit more satisfying.
Now there are some dark Spider-man stories but the character is not inherently dark. The dark elements like in the Todd McFarlane Morbius stuff don't come from Peter Parker it's the situation. He isn't motivated by anger but by a feeling of responsibility. I know he goes after the thief who killed his uncle but his motivation to keep going is that he let the thief get away in the first place and he feels duty bound to do the right thing at every opportunity in future because of the potential cost in not. He's our friendly neighborhood Spider-man, not a dark knight.
I also don't have a problem with Spider-man having villains like The Lizard. He's not a guy with a load of gadgets, he's a superhero and he should fight super villains. I understand changing things in the transition from comics to film, but I see no reason to play down the sci-fi in a sci-fi type story.
I also agree that I want some wisecracks. I don't mean he should be firing a pun at every opportunity or giving Arnie one liners but the Buffy series showed that a hero can wise crack without it being cheesy. As a kid I outright loved the fact that Spidey wisecracks. Whether it served to wind up his enemy or was a way of coping with a difficult situation, it showed the confidence he feels as Spider-man and a chance to say to the bullies as Spidey what he doesn't as Parker. |
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Lemure
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 15:26
Considering the script is finished and filming is well under way, isn't it a bit late to be whining about what you want from a Spider-Man reboot? You'll get what you're given and there's nothing you can do about it. |
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PaulParker77
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 15:47
@bobthegrinch
In a way, you’ve proven my point. Whether that’s what he’s getting at or not, I think it’s one word in an article and there’s been something of an over-reaction to it.
It does say a lot about your average movie geek though that he gets slated for using the word “dark”, but not one person mentions BatSpider calling him a prick. I guess an educated movie opinion is sacrilegious and worthy of condescending replies, but abusive comments go unmentioned.
I will disagree – respectfully – that the character isn’t inherently dark. Again, I think it depends who you read etc, but right from the early Stan Lee runs Peter lost both parents, was orphaned to a poor aunt and uncle, he was then responsible for his uncle’s death, his first love dies in his arms, his best mate eventually turns against him… and so on.
The author wrote that Webb should be influenced by Nolan’s movies – doesn’t mean the characters have to be the same. Raimi’s original Spider-man takes influence from Superman The Movie, but that didn’t mean the characters were the same type.
For me, I don’t need superheroes to always go up against supervillains. In fact, I think this need (which Marvel is particularly guilty of) has spoiled a few adaptations. Bits of The Incredible Hulk were great, but the Abomination brought it down. Wolverine had loads of potential and some nice scenes, but the Deadpool ending is so over-the-top it’s ridiculous.
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PaulParker77
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 15:48
Guess I’m in the minority here, since the wonderful Superman Returns didn’t do so well. As apparently, “he didn’t fight enough”. Words fail me. The Man Of Steel is more interesting when going up against Lex Luthor and dealing with personal issues he can’t overcome with his powers (Pa Kent dying, feeling alien, Lois having a kid) than exchanging punches with another CGI creation.
Agree with you about the bullying aspect – to a degree. I like Whedon’s quirkiness and I enjoyed some of Buffy, but for me it was frequently too silly and light. Too knowing. If the tone doesn’t take the story seriously, it removes the sense of danger. Spidey needs that. It’s doubtful you’d be making light of a giant lizard-man trying to kill you. But, oh yeah I forgot, that’s what it’s like in the comics. And we can’t deviate from that, can we fanboys?
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ordboy17
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 17:09
Am I the only one that thought the raimi spider-man movies were completely shit. |
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spideed2
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 17:33
Spiderman should not be dark...at all. Ever. I usually love these blogs but by god that shows such a basic lack of understanding about the characcter, that i couldnt take the rest seriously. |
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PaulParker77
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 17:45
@spideed2
It was one word. Not going to repeat my points above..
Oh, and I'm assuming characcter is the same as character? Gotta be careful here, people pick up on every word. |
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mysticinferno
Posted on Friday February 11, 2011, 18:14
i'm with you all the way with what's been mentioned here, except- using ultimate spiderman as a model. I don't mind when people do modernised versions of comic books, as long as it's just the odd tweak here or there to the original storyline or character. However, when 'Thor' looks more like some guy who's been swiped out of a Calvin Klein commercial, Dr Doom is sounding american and there's an x-men film based (however loosely) around the phoenix saga that's NOT freakin' amazing: You've deviated too much!
Stick with the original stories and characters and modernise it here and there where absolutely necessary. If you're really stuck on the idea of changing everything around, here's an idea- do something new, something original instead. The series 'Heroes' wasn't based on a comic, neither was 'The Incredibles', both were hugely popular with the bonus of not p***ing off legions of fanboys worldwide. |
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Ciaran McNulty
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 01:13
Disagree with most of these 'Tips'. Boy, do cinematic commentators need to get over Chris Nolan- there were many excellent superhero flicks before his dry and joyless brand of heroism came along. Hans Zimmer is the most bland, samey composer going and the Ultimate Spider-Man run ripped the guts out of the Peter Parker character in the name of 'Updating'.
Totally disagree with most of Mr. Carty's list, with the exception of numbers 8 and 9. Yes, less CG and more wall-crawling. |
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snaze1
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 09:28
ONE way to get Spidey right - Get Sam Raimi back & get the studio to not interfere and just leave him the fuck alone! |
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PaulParker77
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 14:27
Yeah, well I totally disagree that Chris Nolan's superhero flicks are "dry and joyless".
Exactly what other superhero flicks are excellent can I enquire? The Original Superman and Iron Man (maybe X2 at a push) are the only non-Nolan superhero flicks that could be considered excellent - in my opinion.
I completely disagree that Ultimate "ripped the guts out of the Peter Parker character". It's the best character work Spidey's seen since Strasnski!
How did it do this exactly? It is infinitely better reading than all the continuing comic Spidey runs.. particularly the recent ones where he was unmasked then Marvel did the whole re-set button thing. Awful.
I love how Empire writers constantly get grief on these blogs from folk who think they know it al. You have my sympathy guys. Keep up the good work.
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jobloffski
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 14:32
Why do people say a Spidey film can't be dark? It can, as can Superman, by having the VILLAIN and their scheme be so dark the story NEEDS the light the hero represents. As a little kid, I read a Spidey comic with our hero hanging (bleeding from tears in his costume) from a barbed wire fence on the cover. Early eighties that was, dudes, and to a kid, quite a distressing image. The point isn't how dark it gets, but that the light in the hero never goes out. that's kinda the point of heroes, innit? To be unbreakable no matter how hard someone tries to break them? |
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bobthegrinch
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 18:39
@ Paul Parker, I don't think I did prove your point as the dark points you listed are things that happen to him, not the character and as I stated, sometimes the situation is dark but he, as a character, rarely is. One word or not, it's a significant statement that clearly a lot of Spider-man fans disagree with the sentiment of. It's kind of a staple of comic books that characters have lost family members/romantic interests and been betrayed by friends. He's still not the moody brooder that Batmand or Wolverine are, or scare of his own powers and rage like the Hulk. Peter Parker is unlucky but he's not a dark guy.
I don't think using Nolan as inspiration is a terrible idea, but pick the right elements. Also I think if I was super strong and agile with a precognitive ability to sense danger, I'd be more likely to make a joke while being chased by a giant lizard than I am as a normal person. It's also not real life and that is a hugely popular (and in my opinion successful) element of the comics. I don't think anyone is saying it can't deviate from the comics, doesn't mean there aren't elements we'd prefer they kept.
I disagree about Buffy, I think occasionally it didn't focus on the danger because the characters were facing it so often they became desensitised to it. I think that makes sense and when things were more extreme than they were used to, the tone reflected that. It also didn't shy away from proper drama (e.g. her mum dying of cancer, Jonothan considering a high school shooting).
I also really enjoyed Superman Returns but that was because I really liked Clark Kent and Brandon Routh. However Lex Luthor was as bad as films have always made him. Criminal genius in the comics but on film clowning around without menace, ripping off an old woman, surrounded by complete moron henchmen and gobby woman attempts to gain power with a real estate plan (am I talking Superman 1 or Returns here? Oh wait...). I'm all for Lex Luthor, TBC... |
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bobthegrinch
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 18:45
but if you're going to use Lex Luthor, make him someone I can believe could one day manipulate his way to being President, hell make him someone I believe could manipulate his way to being in charge of a fast food van. With regard to the Son, that was a mistake and a decision that would have severely impacted any Singer sequel. Have Lois with someone else, married if you like, but a secret super child. I don't see where they could've taken that. I do enjoy that film a lot but it's got some serious flaws.
Also Superman, dead parents, home planet obliterated, for a time believed he was the last of his entire race, killed, resurrected, in his first comic appearances he was ruthless, in his later ones witnessed versions of himself die, witnessed team mates and confidants die. Is he a dark character? |
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bobthegrinch
Posted on Saturday February 12, 2011, 18:50
This blog is a fanboy post, fanboys are going to read this, and if they disagree with an elements of it (even if it's just one word to them that speaks volumes) they'll respond as fanboys do. If you write an opinion piece, it's perfectly reasonable and expected that people to respond with theirs.
I do agree calling the writer a prick was uncalled for and daft by the way, I think most people do. |
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The Todge
Posted on Sunday February 13, 2011, 02:13
"do cinematic commentators need to get over Chris Nolan" - Agreed
"Hans Zimmer is the most bland, samey composer going " - Agreed
"Yes, less CG and more wall-crawling." - Agreed |
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Florist Gump
Posted on Sunday February 13, 2011, 13:00
"Series killing Spider-Man 3"? Really? Reaaallly? Spidey 3 took $891 million at the worldwide box office, the biggest hit of the 3 movies, and if you think that's series killing, wow. You really don't know how Hollywood works, do you? While quality SHOULD win out over box office we still get Little Fockers.
Spidey 3 (IMHO) was fine, a touch messed up - a Jedi compared to an Empire, but no series killer.
Reboot time was the right option. Maguire was into his 30's, playing a teenager and so a fresh face (even though the new fella is already 27) is the right call. |
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| 40 |
PaulParker77
Posted on Sunday February 13, 2011, 14:09
@jobloffski - well said. Very much agree.
@Florist Gump - Well, it did kill the series (as in the Raimi, Magurie etc series) as the whole team is dis-banding and we're startiing again. If it hadn't killed that series we'd be gearing up for Spider-man 4 under Sam. I'd have thought that was failry obvious? Apologies if that sounds condescending, but you cornered the market with "you really don't know how Hollywood works, do you?" |
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PaulParker77
Posted on Sunday February 13, 2011, 14:15
@bobthgrinch,
I still disagree with some points, but I salute you for at least having reasoned arguments which make sense!
Yes these are things that happen to Peter - but the writer said the movies should take influece from Nolan, not the character. He doesn't say the character has to be dark. The character is the light in amongst all the darkness. Much as joboffski argued very well.
Again I will disagree (respectfully) about the jokeyness. That is just my personal preference. I lean heavily towards the more realistic the better. I realise we are talking about a man with proportionate spider-powers, but I think it’s progressively harder to suspend disbelief the more we get away from reality. For me, the best comics have always been those with a stronger sense of reality and the silver-age ones (with loose logic and everyone with powers) are more for younger readers or days gone by.
I do think many people hate it when any element of these movies deviates from the comics. Like the massive (and ridiculous) uproar when it was announced the webshooters would be organic.
About the Buffy densensitising thing, again I’m not sure at all as even though a vampire might not be as scary the 19th time they attack you as thefirst, it would still be scary as hell. Yes, I agree there were moments of proper drama though.
Totally agreed – the kid arc in Superman Returns was a big mis-step that wrote the series into a corner. I enjoyed Spacey’s Luthor – but for me John Shea’s Lex in Lois and Clark is the best representation of the character we’ve seen on screen.
Yes, this blog is a fanpost, but at times I get tired of the manner some “fanboys” attack Empire writers. They are of course allowed to disagree, but some of the things they say and the way they say them aren’t called for. I’m a fanboy and I often don’t agree – but I do so respectfully. I think too many of them getting away with poor manners by arguing that they're passionate.
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| 42 |
The Todge
Posted on Sunday February 13, 2011, 16:31
" I lean heavily towards the more realistic the better. I realise we are talking about a man with proportionate spider-powers, but I think it’s progressively harder to suspend disbelief the more we get away from reality. "
I'm struggling with the nature of this. I see the realism you want is what makes you lean towards Nolan's Bat movies, but quite why you'd ask for the same thing from a character with actual super powers is baffling. I can see to an extent that things like this needed to be grounded first to accept the hyper reality later (see Ghostbusters for example) and so we have Peter Parker who has all the normal adolescent problems, coupled with havign big smackdowns against super-villains, again, relating back to the Buffy thing. But if you want to restrict a wild and colourful character like Spider-Man, why bother at all?
Like the guy further back who suggested doing The Lizard like Reptile looked in the Mortal Kombat reboot. Missing the point much?
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| 43 |
PaulParker77
Posted on Sunday February 13, 2011, 18:34
I don't see how it is so baffling. I explained above that I personally don't feel the need to always have a supervillain just because it's a superhero. In Spder-man 3 for example, Harry would've worked much better as a mental threat - messing with Peters life etc than flying around on his glider.
"why bother at all". - well there's much more to Spidey than his rogue's gallery and occurrences that aren't really possible. I see a man with these powers trying to grapple with life as a rich enough story. I know that I'm in the minority here though - for reasons I explained earlier.
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| 44 |
captainamazing
Posted on Monday February 14, 2011, 09:35
These arguements bring to mind the Simpsons episode where Roger Myers Jr uses the kids to test screen ideas for Itchy And Scratchy. Everyone complains that the third Spider-man was too wacky and for want of a better word, comic-y. Then someone suggests trying to make it more serious and relateable (or the dreaded 'dark' word), and everyone complains. "So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?"
I'd just be happy if the tried to explain why Spidey is such a master seemstress.
And Empire - Peter is now a 'web-designer'? Delicious.
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| 45 |
carlos_anubis
Posted on Monday February 14, 2011, 16:26
Re: point 5
Irrfan Khan, not Kahn!!! He's Indian, not Austro-German! |
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| 46 |
Ed Garty
Posted on Wednesday February 16, 2011, 07:55
The problem I have with people saying that it should be more like the recent Batman franchise, is that Batman is a vigilante...he's not a Superhero! Spidey is! His DNA has been mutated from the bite of a radioactive spider for gods sake! Pretty super if you ask me. I agree that he should make some mistakes or bad choices in this film...as "with great power come great responsabilty" and that should be shown to be true in the movie. And as for casting Andrew Garfield...you couldnt get much geekeier than casting the guy that had a hand in setting up The Facebook!! |
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| 47 |
al2sf
Posted on Wednesday February 23, 2011, 23:24
12. MAKE SPIDEY FUNNY!
I mean COME ON! Where's the always funny "wisecracking" superhero from the comics ? I believe that in the Sam Raimi films he does -what?- two jokes while he's wearing the mask ? Come on ! That's an important part of the character !!! |
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| 48 |
Cohaagens_Eyes
Posted on Sunday February 27, 2011, 11:32
Get over this god-damn recycling craze already. A Spider-Man reboot is neither needed nor wanted. End of. |
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