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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 12:59:10 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref
I don't care if you buy the DVDs, Blu-Rays etc - you are still watching/listening to something that you have not paid for.


I borrowed Xanadu off a friend. I watched it, gave it back. I didn't rent it from my friend and I don't think I'll be buying it.

LOCK ME UP.


I hope you washed your hands afterwards!. I've just been offered to go around to filthy friends house to watch Silver Linings Playbook! I passed, not because I am morally incorruptible, because it sounds like movie which is a deliberate attempt to garner awards without the actual content to justify it and its something I can a happily watch one day on Lovefilm or Netflix.


Silver Linings is surprisngly good, well worth a watch.

Any explanation on the facepalm gif? Am still curious what you thought was dumb?


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Post #: 271
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 2:37:05 PM   
Crpwned

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 18/5/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

I borrowed Xanadu off a friend. I watched it, gave it back. I didn't rent it from my friend and I don't think I'll be buying it.

LOCK ME UP.



There's a valid point, where do people stand on the borrowing of DVDs etc.?
Where's the difference between uploading a copy of a DVD, that has been purchased legitimately, for anyone and their uncle to go torrent from a website; and the act of lending someone a physical DVD to put into their player at home to watch.
Either way you haven't paid for the product you're watching, but one is frowned upon alot more heavily than the other?

Now I've downloaded my fair share of films/games/music in my time, and i know alot of my friends do exactly the same. 90% of the time It'll be because I was curious regarding the film and wanted to see what it was like due to mixed reviews and the majority of the time if I do enjoy the product I'll go out and purchase it to add to my physical collection (though we do have the problem of then I gotta find more wall space for them all to go on!)

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Post #: 272
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 2:49:39 PM   
SwozTheRevenge


Posts: 225
Joined: 22/10/2010
Warning: The copyright proprietor has licensed the program (including, without limitation, its soundtrack) contained in this Digital Versatile Disc for private home use only. Unless otherwise expressly licensed by the copyright proprietor, all other rights are reserved. Use in other locations such as airlines, clubs, coaches, hospitals, hotels, oil rigs, prisons, schools and ships is prohibited unless expressly authorized by the copyright proprietor.Any unauthorized copying, editing, exhibition, renting hiring, exchanging, lending, public performances, diffusion and or broadcast, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. Any such action establishes liability for a civil action and may give rise to criminal prosecution.

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, renting, lending, public performance, radio or TV broadcasting of this DVD prohibited


So, if you let your friend borrow your Tales Of The Unexpected boxset 1: you are awesome and 2: you're as guilty as those downloading Dredd off torrent sites.

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Post #: 273
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 26/1/2013 2:22:29 AM   
Vantage


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/5/2012
Last film I saw at the cinema........the dark night rises. 8. Not a bad couple + hours of entertainment. I fancy seeing Lincoln so the wife and I are planning a trip to the cinema, popcorn and dogs. Yeah I know I don't have to eat it, but thats what cinema is all about, right? So there I am, in the pub, when a mate, says "you seen The Imposter." No I tell him. He tells me it's a top top film. So I go home, download it, watch it. At the end I'm thinkng what a cracking fucking film that is. This shit can't be true.This film has jazzed me so much that I'm fucking telling everyone I know.....Now I've got some friends on facebook who are really not connected with anyone in film or anything to do with film and they think the film is the bee's knees. There telling everyone. I've now got peeps asking me if i seen it.

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Post #: 274
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 26/1/2013 10:23:59 AM   
Chojin


Posts: 4811
Joined: 29/6/2007
From: Bedfordshire
I was submitted to the joys of D-Box ~(http://www.d-box.com/) last night when going to see The Last Stand. What a brilliant idea for audience immersion. With a nice standard seat all I could see out of the corner of my eye were lots of fat people bouncing around who looked like they were on a roller coaster (popcorn flying etc....the full effect). I think this gimmick is just slightly worse than 3D. Completely off putting for anyone else and unwarranted. Just another way to try and get more money out of me.

Why not have special D-Box screenings? That way you don't piss off the rest of your customer base and anyone that has so little of an attention span they need to be thrown around every now and then can sit seperate from the rest of the human race?

In addition there was a group of foreign chaps behind us who felt the need to talk through the entire film rather than STFU. THIS is why I don't frequent the cinema as often - pricing, lack of cinema etiquette and the introduction of gimmicks to try and get as much money as possible out of the consumer.

Lower the price to 5 to see a film and I would go a LOT more often, it would be a very cheap afternoon out. Fuck the industry, I couldn't care less if movies become home release only as I don't feel i'm missing out on a lot anymore and I come away from each cinema 'experience' with less and less enjoyment.

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Post #: 275
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 27/1/2013 11:36:21 PM   
The2ndRing


Posts: 3957
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: rehab

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper


quote:

ORIGINAL: The2ndRing

I'll be honest I haven't looked back at the other 9 pages of this thread. However when I went to see Titanic 3D at a local Cinema, I paid for 4 adults and 1 child, and some sweets/popcorn (not loads of stuff) and it came to the best part of 100. It's been said thousands of times before, but if they want to combat piracy, stop making it so fucking expensive to go to the cinema. ARGH!


Out of curiosity, was this a chain cinema or an independent?

My sister in law and her family go quite a lot to Cineworld and always complain of the cost, even taking advantage of early cheap screenings it still sets them back around 30 quid, minus food and drinks. They've emailed Cineworld a few times with the auggestion of a 'Family Unlimited Card', pay 50 quid a month for a family of four or whatever, something comparable to the standard Unlimited Card. I dont think it's a bad idea myself. I never find the cost of the cinema an issue, primarily because of the Unlimited Card. Also, does a family of three/four/five consider a trip to the cinema to be a 'day out'? Cos there aren't many 'days out' you can do with a family that will be as comparably cheap with food and drinks. Try taking a family of four to the footie foe less than 100 quid. Nay chance.


The screening was at an Odeon. I have enough bills/commitments without adding 50 a month on top. Personally I don't think it should cost even 50 a month to be able to see films at a reasonable price.

I've also worked at an Odeon before, and even 10/11 years ago the prices were ridiculous, 6.80 for an adult in 2001 and it is now about 9? Crazy! I pay 5.99 for Netflix and rent the odd film off of Virgin Film Flex which all in all amounts to the cost of 1 to 1.5 adult tickets a month. I'd rather wait until the films come to those channels than pay stupid amounts of money. And that is a lot coming from me - I travelled to New Zealand to see the last LOTR film in the Cinema, now I am happier to wait for the Hobbit to come on the TV than pay the ridiculously high rates at the cinema. The cinema isn't about the art of film anymore, it's about making money.

So in a round-about way, what I think I am trying to say is - maybe Cinema chains need to get their heads out of their arses, stop blaming piracy as the cause of the decline, and instead consider the fact their hiked up rates are actually the root cause of piracy.

Also another thing is an acceptance of the fact we are living in a digital age, and maybe the film industry needs to harness it more than it has done.

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Post #: 276
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/1/2013 10:08:24 AM   
Your Funny Uncle


Posts: 11846
Joined: 14/11/2005
From: The Deepest Depths Of Joypad.....
A lot of people seem to be under the illusion that downloading movies means you're watching an inferior copy on a laptop or something...strange.

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Post #: 277
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/1/2013 3:22:53 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Your Funny Uncle

A lot of people seem to be under the illusion that downloading movies means you're watching an inferior copy on a laptop or something...strange.

Aye! that copy of Lincoln I watched was pretty much DVD and watched on my friends massive plasma!!. Still felt a little seedy tho! but that might of been his lavalamp and longpile carpet!.

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Post #: 278
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/1/2013 4:35:32 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7747
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

Warning: The copyright proprietor has licensed the program (including, without limitation, its soundtrack) contained in this Digital Versatile Disc for private home use only. Unless otherwise expressly licensed by the copyright proprietor, all other rights are reserved. Use in other locations such as airlines, clubs, coaches, hospitals, hotels, oil rigs, prisons, schools and ships is prohibited unless expressly authorized by the copyright proprietor.Any unauthorized copying, editing, exhibition, renting hiring, exchanging, lending, public performances, diffusion and or broadcast, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. Any such action establishes liability for a civil action and may give rise to criminal prosecution.

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, renting, lending, public performance, radio or TV broadcasting of this DVD prohibited


So, if you let your friend borrow your Tales Of The Unexpected boxset 1: you are awesome and 2: you're as guilty as those downloading Dredd off torrent sites.


I thought that when you purchase a DVD, you are also buying a license to watch that film. When you lend it, you are lending the licence too so it's okay. It's when you copy the DVD you become a scumbag.

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Post #: 279
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/1/2013 11:15:04 AM   
mutronics


Posts: 18
Joined: 20/6/2007
Could you not give the dvd to your friend as a gift. When they have finished watching the dvd they could gift it back to you?

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Post #: 280
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/1/2013 11:39:12 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: The2ndRing


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper


quote:

ORIGINAL: The2ndRing

I'll be honest I haven't looked back at the other 9 pages of this thread. However when I went to see Titanic 3D at a local Cinema, I paid for 4 adults and 1 child, and some sweets/popcorn (not loads of stuff) and it came to the best part of 100. It's been said thousands of times before, but if they want to combat piracy, stop making it so fucking expensive to go to the cinema. ARGH!


Out of curiosity, was this a chain cinema or an independent?

My sister in law and her family go quite a lot to Cineworld and always complain of the cost, even taking advantage of early cheap screenings it still sets them back around 30 quid, minus food and drinks. They've emailed Cineworld a few times with the auggestion of a 'Family Unlimited Card', pay 50 quid a month for a family of four or whatever, something comparable to the standard Unlimited Card. I dont think it's a bad idea myself. I never find the cost of the cinema an issue, primarily because of the Unlimited Card. Also, does a family of three/four/five consider a trip to the cinema to be a 'day out'? Cos there aren't many 'days out' you can do with a family that will be as comparably cheap with food and drinks. Try taking a family of four to the footie foe less than 100 quid. Nay chance.


The screening was at an Odeon. I have enough bills/commitments without adding 50 a month on top. Personally I don't think it should cost even 50 a month to be able to see films at a reasonable price.


50 for a card that you can use for more than one film for a family of 4. Presumably you'd only think about if it, say, you want 3 times a month. So 17 for four tickets is pretty cheap - otherwise it would be wholly unrealistic?

I'm not saying it's cheap, but inflation/price rise of 6.80 to 9 in 13 years is actually surprisingly low for this kind of thing. Rail fares can do that in under 5 years!

But I think the family unlimited card sounds interesting - one of the reasons I don't use the Cineworld one is the unlimited screenings are, I think, only for the card member (the advance ones?) and as it's not worth us both having one there's not much point. I'll save the parking and go local.

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quote:

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/1/2013 1:20:13 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3946
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

Warning: The copyright proprietor has licensed the program (including, without limitation, its soundtrack) contained in this Digital Versatile Disc for private home use only. Unless otherwise expressly licensed by the copyright proprietor, all other rights are reserved. Use in other locations such as airlines, clubs, coaches, hospitals, hotels, oil rigs, prisons, schools and ships is prohibited unless expressly authorized by the copyright proprietor.Any unauthorized copying, editing, exhibition, renting hiring, exchanging, lending, public performances, diffusion and or broadcast, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. Any such action establishes liability for a civil action and may give rise to criminal prosecution.

WARNING: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorized copying, hiring, renting, lending, public performance, radio or TV broadcasting of this DVD prohibited


So, if you let your friend borrow your Tales Of The Unexpected boxset 1: you are awesome and 2: you're as guilty as those downloading Dredd off torrent sites.


I thought that when you purchase a DVD, you are also buying a license to watch that film. When you lend it, you are lending the licence too so it's okay. It's when you copy the DVD you become a scumbag.


Exactly. The waters become muddy if you opt to charge people for lending your stuff, not if you do it for free.

I'm a little bit conflicted with the piracy debate, as for me the ones who crack down on it the most severely (i.e. the big studios and their marque films) tend to be the ones who are less affected by it in terms of the scale of their business.

For example, if it's already out in the public domain I don't really see the big deal in somebody downloading the likes of TDKR, the Avengers, Skyfall or The Hobbit (although personally, I feel these are films that should be seen in a cinema). However recently, I laid into a friend of mine for obtaining an illegal copy of Berberian Sound Studio - as that's the kind of film where the margins of making a profit or loss can be so slight & as a result, could make all the difference in whether the likes of Peter Strickland can pursue his next project or not.

In other words, I think it's extremely important to support the industry on the lower end of the scale, but when it comes to the Hollywood behemoths I'm less bothered.

Television on the other hand is probably even more of a grey area & I'll admit to frequently downloading seasons (any shows I end up loving however, the box sets get bought i.e. The Wire, The Sopranos, Battlestar Galactica). A lot of the time though they're downloaded simply because I'm unable to see them. Breaking Bad for example isn't available to view on any UK television channel (although I hear it's on netflix), whilst I resent giving Murdoch any more of my money to watch things on Sky Atlantic. I still remember how annoyed I was when 24 moved from the BEEB to sky one or when Lost moved from Channel Four to the same channel & how gleeful sky's promotion was (i.e. sky one, the only place to watch these shows you love MUHAHAHAHA). In all honesty, it was sky's hoarding of my then favourite shows which inspired me to illegally obtain them. They already get enough from me anyway when it comes to over-subscribed football coverage.

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Post #: 282
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 4:22:54 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
To the original question as well, a couple of interesting bits of news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/9840828/Skyfall-boosts-British-cinema-as-audiences-reach-decade-high.html

UK ticket sales at a decade high. A couple of days ago it was reported that Korea has also seen the highest admissions since 2005.

This may be the issue of 'marque' films Qwerty notes above, but it is quite interesting in context.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 4:38:52 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

To the original question as well, a couple of interesting bits of news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/9840828/Skyfall-boosts-British-cinema-as-audiences-reach-decade-high.html

UK ticket sales at a decade high. A couple of days ago it was reported that Korea has also seen the highest admissions since 2005.

This may be the issue of 'marque' films Qwerty notes above, but it is quite interesting in context.


Yea, I posted some box office data earlier and the general view was that ticket prices and sales were still going very strong worldwide, certainly no terrible decline that one could link to piracy in some way. The problem is, people would rather just say 'Oh, you downloaded a film, youre a scumbag thief with no respect for film or the industry or the people paid lower wages in the industry and just think of all those lower paid people losing their jobs etc etc'. It felt more like a moral high horse than a real understanding of how piracy actually works and affects the industry. Anti-Piracy campaigns always used to try to convince us of the links between movie piracy and organised crime, drug dealing and fucking terrorism, whereas, in my experience pirate copies nowadays simply come from advance copy rips from within the industry itself, from screeners etc. Most consumers of illegal downloads I know won't touch camcorder versions of movies like in the old days

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 7:53:16 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1080
Joined: 14/1/2009
Most of my friends who are into buying/watching pirate copies never really bothered with the cinema to begin with and would probably never consider buying a DVD even if there were no such thing as piracy. So based on my experiences I have to say no. I would say ticket prices do more damage as it makes avid cinema goers like myself more picky about what they choose to see.

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Post #: 285
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 8:03:16 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

The problem is, people would rather just say 'Oh, you downloaded a film, youre a scumbag thief with no respect for film or the industry or the people paid lower wages in the industry and just think of all those lower paid people losing their jobs etc etc'. It felt more like a moral high horse than a real understanding of how piracy actually works and affects the industry.


I'm not really sure how the point your making ties in to the statement that precedes it tbh. I agree with this idea that pirate folk are scummy, but it's nothing to do with a high-horse per se. I mean, isn't it normal to expect to pay for something that comes with a cost?

To wit, what has the moral high-horsery of others got to do with the acts that said high-horsery is apparently reacting to? The act comes first, the reaction to the act is just that, a reaction. To place a blame of condescension on those of us that have some kind of moral objection strikes me as a little bit odd, and a fluffy side argument to the real issue.

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Post #: 286
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 9:44:58 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

The problem is, people would rather just say 'Oh, you downloaded a film, youre a scumbag thief with no respect for film or the industry or the people paid lower wages in the industry and just think of all those lower paid people losing their jobs etc etc'. It felt more like a moral high horse than a real understanding of how piracy actually works and affects the industry.


I'm not really sure how the point your making ties in to the statement that precedes it tbh. I agree with this idea that pirate folk are scummy, but it's nothing to do with a high-horse per se. I mean, isn't it normal to expect to pay for something that comes with a cost?

To wit, what has the moral high-horsery of others got to do with the acts that said high-horsery is apparently reacting to? The act comes first, the reaction to the act is just that, a reaction. To place a blame of condescension on those of us that have some kind of moral objection strikes me as a little bit odd, and a fluffy side argument to the real issue.


Perhaps badly worded by me, or maybe i needed to quote the points I was directly referrin to, but my main two points were;

People have objected to the act of illegal downloading, which is perfectly fine and acceptable and I can accept. However, what i dont accept is the blanket, sweeping g generalisations by some on here that those choosin to download are somehow less intelligent, less concerned with a quality movie industry, and that they then couldnt actually add anything to the discussion about what the impact of piracy actually has on the industry. I have no problem accepting that the act of download is an illegal one. Theft? No. Illegal, yes. Some posters weren't trying to discuss or debate the impact of piracy, more that they were trying to tell us all how much of a great moral example they are to the rest of us.

The other point I was tryig to make, and may have done so badly, was that I'd previously tried to steer the discussion back on topic towards how piray is actually affecting the industry. I asked for info, details, anything and none was really forthcoming. It was just a lot of 'downloaders are scum' type comments. Someone (maybe Ref?) suggested that the people being directly impacted were lower paid people in the industry and the lower paid workers in cinemas. The thing is, the box office returns, arses on seats etc are really really strong. Cinema turnover is really strong in the uk, box office takings are high, no dropping. The film industry appears to be thriving. Points i made earlier was 'show me how it isnt thriving, show me how piracy really is impacting takings, how it is impacting the wardrobe staff etc'.

So, as I say, consider the act of an illegal download wrong by all means, but dont get on some sort of moral high horse and make sweeping generalisation about people you know nothing about (this isnt aimed directly at you by the way, i k ow you discuss this shit like an adult) especially if yourethen going to bow out of the discussion when youre asked questions you cant answer (again, not directed at you, or most people, just a select few) about the subject at hand. Again, I admit to the act and I dont really want to defend it as such, it's an illegal act, end of story. But as a huge consumer and lover of film and all it's component parts, I don believe my a ts have any mind of impact on the industry as a whole. If anything, I'd wager my contribution in cash per month wouldfar outweigh that of many. Again, thats not an excuse to commit an illegal act. I cant be a paramedic and save a bunch of lives, then kick someone to death and say "fuck it, saved ten this week, i can take that one" (does that comparison even work?! Haha it does after a lot of whiskey!). I'm just making the point that, be opposed to illegal downloads, but dont think it gives you any moral high ground to try and talk down to fellow posters.

Hope that makes (more) sense.


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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 9:51:55 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
Another point I wanted to make was that after a couple of cinema visits this week, I reckon cinema etiquette might be as big a factor as cost, in terms of driving people away in future (if people are driven away, stats dont seem to suggest it). Some people just really have no idea how to behave in public.

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Post #: 288
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 10:03:06 PM   
rich


Posts: 4662
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
quote:


is piracy REALLY killing the film industry?



No.

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 11:00:44 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have no problem accepting that the act of download is an illegal one. Theft? No. Illegal, yes.



If it isn't theft, but is illegal,then what would you call it?

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 1/2/2013 11:32:44 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

quote:


is piracy REALLY killing the film industry?



No.


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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 4:54:53 AM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3946
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

The problem is, people would rather just say 'Oh, you downloaded a film, youre a scumbag thief with no respect for film or the industry or the people paid lower wages in the industry and just think of all those lower paid people losing their jobs etc etc'. It felt more like a moral high horse than a real understanding of how piracy actually works and affects the industry.


I'm not really sure how the point your making ties in to the statement that precedes it tbh. I agree with this idea that pirate folk are scummy, but it's nothing to do with a high-horse per se. I mean, isn't it normal to expect to pay for something that comes with a cost?

To wit, what has the moral high-horsery of others got to do with the acts that said high-horsery is apparently reacting to? The act comes first, the reaction to the act is just that, a reaction. To place a blame of condescension on those of us that have some kind of moral objection strikes me as a little bit odd, and a fluffy side argument to the real issue.


Perhaps badly worded by me, or maybe i needed to quote the points I was directly referrin to, but my main two points were;

People have objected to the act of illegal downloading, which is perfectly fine and acceptable and I can accept. However, what i dont accept is the blanket, sweeping g generalisations by some on here that those choosin to download are somehow less intelligent, less concerned with a quality movie industry, and that they then couldnt actually add anything to the discussion about what the impact of piracy actually has on the industry. I have no problem accepting that the act of download is an illegal one. Theft? No. Illegal, yes. Some posters weren't trying to discuss or debate the impact of piracy, more that they were trying to tell us all how much of a great moral example they are to the rest of us.

The other point I was tryig to make, and may have done so badly, was that I'd previously tried to steer the discussion back on topic towards how piray is actually affecting the industry. I asked for info, details, anything and none was really forthcoming. It was just a lot of 'downloaders are scum' type comments. Someone (maybe Ref?) suggested that the people being directly impacted were lower paid people in the industry and the lower paid workers in cinemas. The thing is, the box office returns, arses on seats etc are really really strong. Cinema turnover is really strong in the uk, box office takings are high, no dropping. The film industry appears to be thriving. Points i made earlier was 'show me how it isnt thriving, show me how piracy really is impacting takings, how it is impacting the wardrobe staff etc'.

So, as I say, consider the act of an illegal download wrong by all means, but dont get on some sort of moral high horse and make sweeping generalisation about people you know nothing about (this isnt aimed directly at you by the way, i k ow you discuss this shit like an adult) especially if yourethen going to bow out of the discussion when youre asked questions you cant answer (again, not directed at you, or most people, just a select few) about the subject at hand. Again, I admit to the act and I dont really want to defend it as such, it's an illegal act, end of story. But as a huge consumer and lover of film and all it's component parts, I don believe my a ts have any mind of impact on the industry as a whole. If anything, I'd wager my contribution in cash per month wouldfar outweigh that of many. Again, thats not an excuse to commit an illegal act. I cant be a paramedic and save a bunch of lives, then kick someone to death and say "fuck it, saved ten this week, i can take that one" (does that comparison even work?! Haha it does after a lot of whiskey!). I'm just making the point that, be opposed to illegal downloads, but dont think it gives you any moral high ground to try and talk down to fellow posters.

Hope that makes (more) sense.



Certainly makes more sense, but you spelt 'whisky' wrong.



quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Another point I wanted to make was that after a couple of cinema visits this week, I reckon cinema etiquette might be as big a factor as cost, in terms of driving people away in future (if people are driven away, stats dont seem to suggest it). Some people just really have no idea how to behave in public.


This (unfortunately) is very true.



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(in reply to porntrooper)
Post #: 292
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 8:05:53 AM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have no problem accepting that the act of download is an illegal one. Theft? No. Illegal, yes.



If it isn't theft, but is illegal,then what would you call it?


I'd call it the correct technical term, if I knew what it was. I'm pretty sure it's not classed as theft technically, rather somekind of copyright infringement? I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the law could confirm. If the legal classification for the download of copyright material is theft, then I'm a thief, but I dont think it is. Also, did we ever get confirmatiob id the download of TV shows from America is classed as the same copyright infringement? If I download 'The Following' cos I dont have Sky Atlantic, am I commiting the same technical offence as downloading a screener of Lincoln? One would have me accused of being scum, but no one qould bat an eyelid in Small Screen. I'll add that I havent done either, for the record.

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Post #: 293
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 9:49:00 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

I have no problem accepting that the act of download is an illegal one. Theft? No. Illegal, yes.



If it isn't theft, but is illegal,then what would you call it?


I'd call it the correct technical term, if I knew what it was. I'm pretty sure it's not classed as theft technically, rather somekind of copyright infringement? I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the law could confirm. If the legal classification for the download of copyright material is theft, then I'm a thief, but I dont think it is. Also, did we ever get confirmatiob id the download of TV shows from America is classed as the same copyright infringement? If I download 'The Following' cos I dont have Sky Atlantic, am I commiting the same technical offence as downloading a screener of Lincoln? One would have me accused of being scum, but no one qould bat an eyelid in Small Screen. I'll add that I havent done either, for the record.


I would say yes, it would be the same thing (I say this as someone who has Sky Atlantic).

What I always find curious (and this isn't aimed at you), is this idea that because something is expensive, it therefore makes it more ok to take off from the internet, as if we feel there is an inbuilt right to watch Lincoln regardless of what cost the studios and/or theatre owners set the price to watch that film at.

Also find it interesting that sometimes people watch this stuff well before it is released over here. Are people really certain that they couldn't afford to see Cloud Atlas two months before it was released in the UK?

Same goes for TV. Someone can't afford Sky Atlantic, but they feel they should be able to watch it regardless, sometimes even ahead of the people who fork out the cash to watch it on broadcast date.

We can debate distribution models and all that, but at the moment, Sky paid a crap load of money to get these shows in the UK, they usually screen the stuff only a few days after the US. Am I a mug for paying for that channel? Should I cancel it and just take it all from the internet?

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Post #: 294
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 9:52:07 AM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1080
Joined: 14/1/2009
A lot of the piracy adverts on DVD's are blatantly claiming it as theft though, images of a guys robbing cars and what not. Without really reading up on piracy laws, lets be honest most won't, I'm not sure how you can really get away from people referring to it as such.

Scumbag, pretty harsh I'd liken scumbags to people who rob old lady's and smackheads.

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 2/2/2013 9:56:44 AM >

(in reply to porntrooper)
Post #: 295
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 9:57:28 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

A lot of the piracy adverts on DVD's are blatantly claiming it as theft though,n images of a guys robbing cars and what not. Without really reading up on piracy laws, lets be honest most won't, I'm not sure how you can really get away from people referring to it as such.

Scumbag, pretty harsh I'd liken scumbags to people who rob old lady's and smackheads.


Yeah, I wouldn't use such emotive terms - but I also think no matter how many hoops and how many words you use to justify it, the act is taking something for free, which should have a cost assigned to it.

I remember someone complaining in the past that it was ok to download Avatar because it had made lots of money and the Blu Ray cost a lot....as if Fox shouldn't be allowed to continue to make money from the film, or to the set the prices any way it felt fit.

I also wonder - Cloud Atlas is out there, a movie which hasn't done well at the box office. How does that fit in with the idea that cinemas are doing well, ergo it isn't such a big deal? Would anyone here be brave enough to tell the cast and crew of that film some of the stuff on this thread?

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Post #: 296
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 10:13:11 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think Qwerty's point is easier though. Cloud Atlas not so much since it doesn't seem to have been well received so people would just try to argue that if they didn't DL they still wouldn't have wasted money going to see it (not saying the argument is valid, just that that is the justification that would be used).

But smaller films? Take something like Grabbers. A small film trying to find a market because it's really important that it does if the company are going to be able to make more films or, even, a sequel. A few months ago, around the time of the Irish theatrical release, some copies started leaking online . That's pretty awful for a small film like that and they did a lot of work to get links taken down.

So forget Cloud Atlas - What Richard Did seems to be going the same way. If access is a problem, you can see the film on video on demand.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 297
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 10:15:24 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19039
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Also wonder about something like House of Cards - there it is, for free to watch for a month. But I suspect it is still being downloaded by people which strikes me as odd.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 2/2/2013 10:21:06 AM >


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Post #: 298
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 10:18:10 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
That is very odd!

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 299
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 2/2/2013 10:32:53 AM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
Do i think it is right and fair to obtain content without paying for it? No. If, as a consumer, I want to see Lincoln, I should go to the cinema, buy the Blu Ray, pay for a rental or whatever. I absolutely believe that. However, online illegal downloads arent simply catering to people unwilling to pay or wait. Check out the Prometheus threads where I tried to explain the very simple concept of 'If I want all the content available, I have to pay for it'. Maybe I am a anomaly in the world of illegal online downloads, in that I pay for pretty much verything and never really download thigs I dont intend to see via the cinema/blu/rental. I'm trying to think of a film Ive downloaded that Ive not subsequently bought or that I saw in a cinema first and then subsequently bought, only ones I can think of are The Hole and The Signal. I also recently borrowed a copy of Alex Cross as I missed it in cinema's and I likely wont buy it as it's one of the lost inept movies Ive ever seen. The problem wih classing i as theft (which im sure isnt, but am happy to be proven wrong) is that i am not denying a sale. If i pop in a shop and nick a blu ray, that blu ray cannot be sold on to another consumer and the profit is denied to the owner. If i download a file from the internet, i am not denying a sale. Ive no idea if that factors into the classification o the crime, but in my eyes it does make a big difference between the two. Thing is, the casual movie fans that i know that download regularly, wouldnt replace downloads wih a trip to the cinema, or a lovefilm account or whatever. They would simply go without. I don think people could make sweeping generalisations about people that download and their morals. I speed occasionally, it's illegal but I dont think anyone could use that occasional breakage of the law to judge my (or anyone else's) morals for doing so. Not as simple as that in my opinion.

Also, there is the other issue of how piracy and illegal downloads impacts the industry. I honestly have no idea, but as a non industry expert, I just dont see it. So when people try to take this moral high ground and back it up with arguments like 'but think of the poor cinema staff and cinema chains' i think its a bit weak. I too have Sky Atlantic, and Sports and Movies and I know that there are other a enura to see sports, movies and tv shows wihout Sky, but the right thin to do is pay for it, so I do. Same as I do with my movies and music. Somehow though the tv download stuff isnt seen as bad as movie downloads, and people sometimes justify that with a 'fuck Sky and Fox and Murdoch' type excuse which I really dont get. Is their a sense of entitlement with people? Id say a lot yea. Its their, its free and its easy, so why not. Thats the attitude of a lo o people. It isnt mine, but yea, its a lot of peoples. I wouldnt judge anyones morals for taking that attitude though.

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